[OpenWrt-Devel] [LEDE-DEV] openwrt and lede - remerge proposal

Imre Kaloz kaloz at openwrt.org
Thu May 11 09:13:33 EDT 2017

Well hello there,

On 2017-05-11 12:53, Stijn Segers wrote:

> While, like most people, I'm happy progress has been made towards a
> re-merge, there still seems quite some passive-agressive behaviour
> present coming from certain people championing OpenWrt [1] - which, from
> where I stand, seemed one of the reasons for starting LEDE. Stifling
> 'free' speech (recently, even to the point of removing messages about
> the pending re-merge on the OpenWrt forums) was another one; clearly,
> that one is still very much present as well. One could say old habits
> die hard, but it still feels like par for the course. What's up with
> that? You want to remerge with the LEDE project, yet you cannot tolerate
> any discussion about the actual process on the OpenWrt forums? That's
> some fine duplicity right there.

I guess our vocabularies differ quite a bit, given I see no 
passive-aggressive statements there. I hope you just misunderstood the 
ways some things have been worded, as your mail overemphasized certain 
parts to twist the picture. I could very well say you're championing 
yourself but somehow I don't see mails from you sent to any lists nor me 
about questioning the forum moderators' behavior. Of course you could 
have also stepped up and volunteer to be one, but either of these would 
have required more energy then this mail.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning if you're right, but you should 
also be a bit more empathetic and understand a few things.

First of all, forum moderator rights have been given out as we didn't 
have time to do it ourselves. This also means that after the first few 
days we didn't spend our time on monitoring what people with moderator 
rights are doing.

Second, and this might be harder to accept, but to a certain degree when 
the first reply to anything is "OpenWrt is dead, go with LEDE", your 
behavior might generate a hostile reply. Again, I'm not saying this is 
right, I'm saying this is standard human behavior.

Back to my reply you love referring to: for me it seems you are the one 
who can't tolerate the discussion and would like to silence opinions (or 
how they can be expressed) you don't like. You might prefer baroque, I'm 
free to like renaissance.

> I can't help but feel very uneasy about this. I'm not implying people
> who stuck with OpenWrt don't want the best for the project and community
> (most do), but we all know LEDE was created to remedy exactly these (and
> other) shortcomings, which made OpenWrt languish to the point it had
> come to a standstill. Not only did LEDE try to tackle these problems; it
> has succeeded beyond expectation. Developers are more accessible, you
> can actually talk to people instead of getting your head bit off,
> contributions are booming, and the atmosphere overall is friendly and
> helpful. Discussion is encouraged, not repressed Soviet-style.

The reasons of the fork have been discussed quite a few times, and if 
you think any project will be free of internal politics over a decade, 
you might want to look into the history of FOSS projects in general :)

As the rest of your mail is mostly FUD, let's stick to facts if you 
consider replying. As the saying goes, in any relationship, there are 
three sides of the story: his side, her side and the truth.

Both sides have hard feelings about certain topics, but this discussion 
started because we've decided to put those away. I can only ask you to 
try the same instead of sending mails like this.


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